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mahaliem about the S7 episode "Traveller" I recently saw some discussion about nature vs. nurture among SV and DC characters.
In Lex's case this has already been discussed to death, what with Lionel and Lillian, the parents from hell. I guess the consensus among fans is that in Lex's case, nurture was the deciding factor that made him who he is now. In AUs, Lex-without-Lionel tends to be written as a good guy.
But what about other characters? What about Clark without the Kents, or Ollie Queen / Bruce Wayne (I tend to see them as somewhat interchangeable, SV!Arrow is a lighter version of Batman) without dead!parents? What about a Lana who wasn't raised by Nell?
I think that for all that the Kents turned Clark into a paranoid, lying asshat (at least half the time) they also raised him as a patient and relatively humble person, and thanks to them, Clark doesn't care about money or power (or rather, he does, see red!Clark, but he considers them bad things.) He likes animals, children and honest work. SV!Clark may not be a paragon of virtue, but he could have turned out so much worse.
Or could he?
Standard-AU #14: Lionel raises Clark. I think we all agree that if there's one person who could have turned Clark evil, it's Lionel. Similarly, Clark would probably not have been as sane if he had been raised in some government lab.
What if some of the other Veritas members had raised him? We don't know what kind of people the Queens were (and we shouldn't judge them by Ollie, since we've only ever seen Ollie after their death, which probably affected him for the worse.) but presumably he'd have been a lot more spoiled, and the Queens might have been less afraid (thanks to their money/power) of discovery. Clark would also have been raised with his future/destiny in mind: they'd have expected him to become some sort of saviour. That's a lot of pressure.
And Ollie would probably have been the jealous step-brother. All in all, Clark Queen (heh) might have been more self-confident, less careful, a bit spoiled and likely to rebel at some point (as he did against Jor-El.)
I guess Virgil Swann would have been more circumspect in raising him, and Pattie seemed like a nice, bossy older sister to have. Clark Swann would have been raised with krypto-knowledge, and Swann would probably have encouraged any contact with the Jor-El AI. This Clark might have been very conscious of his alienness, and perhaps proud of it.
Clark Kent seems to think of himself as less than human, Clark Queen or Clark Swann might have considered themselves MORE than human. You bet they'd have become Superman by now.
I don't know what would have happened to Clark Teague, but it'd probably have been disastrous. And incestuous.
What if Kara had raised Clark, as she intended to? Kara seems very young (how old IS Kara, btw?) and still insecure, but she does have superpowers with which to protect baby Kal-El while at the same time living publicly as aliens among humans.
The other kids are just as interesting. How do you think would Ollie have turned out if Lionel hadn't killed the Queens? Would he have been a bully at school? Would he have become a costumed vigilante? Or would he have been some kind of irresponsible playboy type? We don't know who the Queens were, but they hung out with Lionel and the Teagues. They might not have been nice people. Ollie might have turned out like Lex, or like Jason Teague.
As a comparison, what kind of person would Bruce Wayne be if his parents hadn't been murdered (I'm sure DC comics has done this AU to death)? In the comics and the movies, MY PARENTS ARE DEAD is the whole reason to become Batman. But even without the trauma, young Bruce would have been brilliant, good-looking and healthy. The movieverse!Waynes are portrayed as model citizens, I'm not so sure about the comics. Then there's Alfred. Would Bruce have become the Bat without Alfred, who, for all his fine qualities, is more loyal than, er, non-battish (sane, responsible, non-freaky)?
I think that Bruce with parents might have turned out more like comics!Ollie (who isn't an orphan, I think) or even like Lex. He wouldn't have been Brucie, he's too smart for that. No, most likely he'd have been brilliant, bored, arrogant, spoiled and way too rich. Either he'd have been a complete loser, a nutjob without a mission, or a really dangerous villain (the bored socialite type like Catwoman, but smarter, more powerful, and maybe more ruthless.)
I'm so sorry about this poll...
[Poll #1159055]
mahaliem about the S7 episode "Traveller" I recently saw some discussion about nature vs. nurture among SV and DC characters. In Lex's case this has already been discussed to death, what with Lionel and Lillian, the parents from hell. I guess the consensus among fans is that in Lex's case, nurture was the deciding factor that made him who he is now. In AUs, Lex-without-Lionel tends to be written as a good guy.
But what about other characters? What about Clark without the Kents, or Ollie Queen / Bruce Wayne (I tend to see them as somewhat interchangeable, SV!Arrow is a lighter version of Batman) without dead!parents? What about a Lana who wasn't raised by Nell?
I think that for all that the Kents turned Clark into a paranoid, lying asshat (at least half the time) they also raised him as a patient and relatively humble person, and thanks to them, Clark doesn't care about money or power (or rather, he does, see red!Clark, but he considers them bad things.) He likes animals, children and honest work. SV!Clark may not be a paragon of virtue, but he could have turned out so much worse.
Or could he?
Standard-AU #14: Lionel raises Clark. I think we all agree that if there's one person who could have turned Clark evil, it's Lionel. Similarly, Clark would probably not have been as sane if he had been raised in some government lab.
What if some of the other Veritas members had raised him? We don't know what kind of people the Queens were (and we shouldn't judge them by Ollie, since we've only ever seen Ollie after their death, which probably affected him for the worse.) but presumably he'd have been a lot more spoiled, and the Queens might have been less afraid (thanks to their money/power) of discovery. Clark would also have been raised with his future/destiny in mind: they'd have expected him to become some sort of saviour. That's a lot of pressure.
And Ollie would probably have been the jealous step-brother. All in all, Clark Queen (heh) might have been more self-confident, less careful, a bit spoiled and likely to rebel at some point (as he did against Jor-El.)
I guess Virgil Swann would have been more circumspect in raising him, and Pattie seemed like a nice, bossy older sister to have. Clark Swann would have been raised with krypto-knowledge, and Swann would probably have encouraged any contact with the Jor-El AI. This Clark might have been very conscious of his alienness, and perhaps proud of it.
Clark Kent seems to think of himself as less than human, Clark Queen or Clark Swann might have considered themselves MORE than human. You bet they'd have become Superman by now.
I don't know what would have happened to Clark Teague, but it'd probably have been disastrous. And incestuous.
What if Kara had raised Clark, as she intended to? Kara seems very young (how old IS Kara, btw?) and still insecure, but she does have superpowers with which to protect baby Kal-El while at the same time living publicly as aliens among humans.
The other kids are just as interesting. How do you think would Ollie have turned out if Lionel hadn't killed the Queens? Would he have been a bully at school? Would he have become a costumed vigilante? Or would he have been some kind of irresponsible playboy type? We don't know who the Queens were, but they hung out with Lionel and the Teagues. They might not have been nice people. Ollie might have turned out like Lex, or like Jason Teague.
As a comparison, what kind of person would Bruce Wayne be if his parents hadn't been murdered (I'm sure DC comics has done this AU to death)? In the comics and the movies, MY PARENTS ARE DEAD is the whole reason to become Batman. But even without the trauma, young Bruce would have been brilliant, good-looking and healthy. The movieverse!Waynes are portrayed as model citizens, I'm not so sure about the comics. Then there's Alfred. Would Bruce have become the Bat without Alfred, who, for all his fine qualities, is more loyal than, er, non-battish (sane, responsible, non-freaky)?
I think that Bruce with parents might have turned out more like comics!Ollie (who isn't an orphan, I think) or even like Lex. He wouldn't have been Brucie, he's too smart for that. No, most likely he'd have been brilliant, bored, arrogant, spoiled and way too rich. Either he'd have been a complete loser, a nutjob without a mission, or a really dangerous villain (the bored socialite type like Catwoman, but smarter, more powerful, and maybe more ruthless.)
I'm so sorry about this poll...
[Poll #1159055]
