misses rogers work in IT-port

[bagheera_san]

I'm grading my first class test (English for electrician apprentices) and it's very boring. No one wrote anything hilariously stupid. Their grammar is terrible, as is their spelling, but not in creative ways. And I'm not allowed to deduct points for grammar or spelling unless it's so bad that you have problems understanding what they want to say. The newest grading system pretty much says that grammar isn't important, and insteads privileges vocabulary and "communication". I disagree - not because I like grammar (there's nothing more boring than a grammar lesson) but because I believe that the most important aspect of speaking a language is grammar: the point where you can actually speak a language (rather than struggle to communicate in it) is when you've internalized the basic aspects of its grammar.

And now, a sample for your edification:
"You stay in Rezeption here now. Misses Rogers work in IT-Port. You must walk right along the floor, then climb upstairs untill you are in first floor. The room of Rogers is in the end of the company."

Now my task is to decide whether your response to this would be -

A: Thank you very much, now I'm sure to find Ms Rogers' office!
or
B: ???

Comments

[aralias.livejournal.com]

i sniggered - and showed it to erin, who also laughed. having your quiz afterwards helped me make sense of the above but initially i just skimmed it and went 'what is this drivel?'

i actually quite like grammar lessons. it's like being let into the secret rules of how language works, and i totally agree that it's vitally important that people are (if not taught actively) at least encouraged and marked for how natural their sentences sound.

[x-los.livejournal.com]

I would say though that I don't have a good formal understanding of English grammar at all, really, but that I understand the languages limits and possibilities to the extent that I can hear when something does not sound *possible* as an English sentence, and can judge when something sounds more vs. less pleasing in that sense. Perhaps foreign language learning could focus less on structural issues (which I don't really comprehend in my own language and thus lack an analog for, and which do not seem very natural to consciously think of while speaking) and more on that sort of absorption and internalization of patterns that characterizes first-language acquisition?

[x-los.livejournal.com]

aha, language's

[bagheera-san.livejournal.com]

There seem to be two ways in which second language learning can be achieved - either through massive exposure to that language (and thus, imitation) or through learning rules and practising them until they become internalized. But practising a language without knowledge of its grammar doesn't improve your skill in it - at worst, you practice your own mistakes. And once you have internalized all the stupid rules you can just forget about them, but not before that.

[bagheera-san.livejournal.com]

It depends on what sort of grammar lesson it is, really - I enjoy drawing syntax trees, and learning about the whys and the patterns of language, but if it's just learning how to conjugate one particular verb then it can be deadly dull.

[margueritem.livejournal.com]

Or C: If I have to climb to get there, I'm not sure I want to go to Ms. Rogers's office. :(

[bagheera-san.livejournal.com]

Yeah, stairs are a terrible obstacle for most of my students, I have a mental image of them pulling themselves up inch by inch, never sure if that elusive first floor will appear or not...

[dragonofmemory]

Oh, grading. It is inherently boring and generally not worth the few amusing answers. Though the other day I did get one saying the Mongols "were looking forward to conquering western Europe" that amused me far more than it should. Those far out number the times that the students make you want to cry for putting Europe in Alaska, Australia and New Zealand in Cuba, and the Mediterranean Sea where the Caribbean is. I've even had a few students get the United States wrong.

Grammar isn't one of my strengths, sadly, despite growing up on School House Rock. But I can teach it, and I do agree it's important.

[bagheera-san.livejournal.com]

Don't we all look forward to a nice holiday abroad where we can indulge in our favourite hobbies like plundering and pillaging?

Also, it's a widely accepted fact that New York is the capital of the world, the French revolution happened around 1490 and women were allowed to vote in the 1980s.

[dragonofmemory]

Mind you, New York is on the west coast. True facts. I've gotten that one as an answer too. And England is in Greenland, so that would be a bit of a stretch to visit.

Some of these kids do scare me.

[jerusha]

I happen to agree with you about grammar. Of course, I'm in a profession where being able to write clearly, with proper punctuation and grammar, is a requirement--one that a lot of people still don't meet!

[bagheera-san.livejournal.com]

One student wrote his test largely in text message style. I'm not sure whether to rejoice that he knows how to text in English or despair.

[kantayra.livejournal.com]

I didn't even know that I was looking for Ms. Rogers' office! o.O

Grammar is fun and everyone's friend!

[bagheera-san.livejournal.com]

Didn't you know? You're a British businessman visiting a German company where the reception is handled by an 18 year old electrician trainee with TERRIBLE English (who also believes that the marketing section of his company is responsible for wrapping packages and putting stickers on them, and that the polite way of introducing himself is, "Hello. Say your name!") Enjoy your stay!

[semantics]

I hate having to grade like that when it means that, should students come to ask you about their mark, you really have nothing concrete to go tell them.

[bagheera-san.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY.

[tweedymcgee.livejournal.com]

I so don't miss grading.

Fifteen minutes to grade a ten-page research paper, if you want to stay above minimum wage. As for the paper: Half of it is cribbed from Wikipedia, the other half is woefully sub-literate, and the plagiarized bits are sunk haphazardly into the bad original writing like a handful of bolts in a bowl of porridge. And you get called on the carpet by your superiors for commenting on grammatical mistakes, because it's not our job to quibble over such inconsequential things.

(So whose job is it to teach them how to write, if it's not the lowly graduate TA's, and certainly not the professor's? Anyone?)

And this was the Ivy League.

Don't even get me started on the belligerent, entitled snotnose whose paper I tried to flunk because it wasn't a research paper at all, but rather a poorly written satire with a slender bibliography attached. IN A SCIENCE CLASS. (Student: "Haven't you ever heard of Jonathan Swift? Are you the stupidest person alive?" Prof: "Just give her a B minus and move on, it's not a big deal.")

[bagheera-san.livejournal.com]

I like simple grading, where you just have to tick off points - it's like drawing or crafts, pretty mindless, but not unpleasant (of course the result is less pleasing than a nice picture). But when you get to the point where you imagine the students going "BUT WHY -- ?" and your only answer is, "It's just bad!" it sucks.